PvP skills vs. PvE time played - Guild Wars Forums

MythicalMino · May 02, 2005, 12:08 AM // 00:08

I read in magazines, the official site, all over, that Guild Wars was going to change the way MMORPG's are played...battles are more dependent on your skills rather than time played....

Is this true? I keep reading that to get other skills, you have to take a PvE character up through the "official" game. I did try to create a PvP character, and I could not pick but only about 8-10 skills. Was this always like this? Or did they just change this?

Does it make the game balanced? I am assuming it does, but doesn't it kinda suck that you have to still play a character through the game (however many hours that is), going through the same missions over and over again just to get the skills "unlocked" for that particular characters profession?

I am actually posting this as a real legit question, as I am wondering how this whole system works. If it works out well enough, then fine...but what if I wanted to create a warrior/elementalist, but have not had either a warrior, or an elementalist in PvE....then that means i have to take a character through the PvE game just to improve my PvP player....this seems counter to what I thought the game was going to do. Besides, with only 4 character slots, it doesn't really leave you open much else, other than "2" character types (2 slots per character type): one slot for PvP, and the other for PvE (advancement of skills).

I am not trying to be critical or cynical of the game...I think the game is very impressive, and I am enjoying the game immensely...but to go through the whole "story" over and over again to "unlock" skills for other professions that I might wanna try in PvP is a daunting thought, and one that is not making me really want to go beyond 1 or 2 characters at the most.

so, please, can anyone help me out here with understanding the concept of this? Like I said, one of my pc magazines (an ad for GW) declares that Guild Wars will be where skill matters, not hours played. The way I see it....it is still very much that "hours played" matters. Afterall, to get to those skills, you need to play the hours....

Thanks

Chris

May 02, 2005, 12:13 AM // 00:13

this is a topic that some(like myself) are debating right now. Theres alot at work in the big picture of things, but for the most part you're right on the money. I'll make a big topic about it later(or post in this one) but right now I'm doing a project at the moment :/
Hope this turns into a good discussion and not a flame war.

Zai · May 02, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

PvP characters are for trying builds out, not as your primary characters. If you want to see how a build performs at level 20 you make a PvP char and give it a swing.

PvE chars are your mains, and getting from 1-20 on them shouldn't take you more then a week or two if you are a slow player. It's not to force you to play, but to teach you how to play. It is true that right now it is based on time spent playing, but this will only hold true for a month, then everyone will have level 20 PvE chars with most of the skills.

BChan · May 02, 2005, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Ok Ill try to answer the OP question.

Yes you have to play the PvE part in order to unlock skills for a PvP only toon. Some random weapons are unlocked for your PvP toon by aquiring them on a PvE toon. To your point does this seem semi contradictary to the lowest time needed to participate in an end game, game as advertised? Yes...Sorta.

What i would say is that you can't have all rewards without some means of earning a right at having things (skills, spells, items, armor). Additionally, no one will be able to make a toon for a PvP only toon without having gotten those skills at one point or another, why is this a good thing? Because that means that person had to have played that primary or secondary profession for enough time as to haven gotten those skills.

For example, you decide to get on for about an hour, no one from your guild is on so you just decide to do some random grouping for pvp. Could you imagine if everyone on your team had just gotten the game that day, rolled a PvP only toon, picked a build that had skills that didn't work with each other, had no clue on how to manage any of the stats, or would pm you saying, "why do i only get 8 skills to fight with?" I don't know about you that would just annoy the hell out of me.

Next this further supports the diversity of equipment and skill sets. Because people have to aquire them in game, then reassemble and salvage parts for use, they get more specialized weapons that meet their individual needs. Once again a right of passage, understanding of your character, and making a better end game gommunity.

Lugosi · May 02, 2005, 12:32 AM // 00:32

I was wondering about the same issue...I mean, I for example play a Necro/Elementist. So if I wanted to make a PVP character that doesn't have one of those professions the character would be like this:

High Energy, lots of life, 60+ armor.....and beginner-skills. Doesn't really make sense to me. So to get more skills I'd have to start a new PvE char with this profession.

So here's just a thought:
When you salvage things like runes it doesn't matter what your professions are, you can still unlock runes that are of a different profession. My Necro for example just unlocked two Warrior-runes.
Now...why don't they just do the same with skills? How about this: When you do a quest that gives you skills for your profession it also unlocks skills for a different profession? Like for example...two necro-skills and two ranger-skills unlock. Something like that, if anybody understands where I'm coming from here.

This way you wouldn't have to play every profession you're interested to PvP with in PvE first.

I hope this makes some sense ;-)

MythicalMino · May 02, 2005, 12:37 AM // 00:37

well, I really do hope this does not turn into a flame war...that is not my intention in the least. I am truly concerned about this....

Now, as for the 2nd comment, thanks....I understand what you are saying now. But....this is still contrary to what I thought I understood it as. I was under the impression (and that impression could very well be wrong) that the max level was so low because the main purpose of the game is the guild wars battles...the PvP. If that is the case, then why are they making ppl go through the PvE aspect of it at least 3-6 times for all the skills to be competitive on the PvP part?

Thanks again for your comments...and I really am not looking for trouble, just asking about this....as the PvE part of goes, I am enjoying the game greatly at the moment, but not sure I would want to go through it 2,3 or more times...I have 2 characters at the moment (Warrior/Ranger who is post-Searing & an Elementalist/Necromancer who I just made). And the thought of trudging through the story a 2nd, 3rd, ect. time really turns me off of the game.

Sure, the missions are interesting (more-so than WoW or EQ2), but to have to do them over and over again. Would be different if for each profession they had a set of quests just for that profession(s)....but, they don't, at least not that i can really see....unless, I am not seeing it in the right light....

Chris

Sidra Meum · May 02, 2005, 01:19 PM // 13:19

I am sure, as new expansions are released, There will be more, new quests, and professions. But - I agree with most other people, and the way the game is. I prefere for players to have to go through an RPG character to unlock the skills - then to just be able to start up a PVP only char and have them all. That would be a disatster. You would have thousands of players that didnt know how to work their character. The only way they have to practice their skills would be in PVP - and if you can't use your skills well enough or how to work what skills in your profession - then no one will want to team with you so you can gain that experiance.
I've played City of Heroes for almost a year now. I've watched and first hand had to deal with someone playing a "Class" of character they know nothing about, yet - are Max Level and have all these powers and know nothing of how to use them or what to do.
I do, understand the dread on the thought of having to run through everything 2 or 3 (if you plan to leave a slot open for a PVP)... but - It doesnt even take maybe 3 hours to get through all the quests on Pre-Searing. I'm still going through my first Post Searing... But.. I'm really enjoying it. I don't think I would mind doing the interactive Quests/Missions again. Really the only one you have to do is the primary. That will give you enough to simply Buy your skills. I know the post searing missions seem a bit long - but once you have doing them once under your belt - doing them a second time will be a breeze as you know what you are doing. You know the objective and where you are. The reason for doing it all over again, becomes more of a how to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MythicalMino

well, I really do hope this does not turn into a flame war...that is not my intention in the least. I am truly concerned about this....

Now, as for the 2nd comment, thanks....I understand what you are saying now. But....this is still contrary to what I thought I understood it as. I was under the impression (and that impression could very well be wrong) that the max level was so low because the main purpose of the game is the guild wars battles...the PvP. If that is the case, then why are they making ppl go through the PvE aspect of it at least 3-6 times for all the skills to be competitive on the PvP part?

Thanks again for your comments...and I really am not looking for trouble, just asking about this....as the PvE part of goes, I am enjoying the game greatly at the moment, but not sure I would want to go through it 2,3 or more times...I have 2 characters at the moment (Warrior/Ranger who is post-Searing & an Elementalist/Necromancer who I just made). And the thought of trudging through the story a 2nd, 3rd, ect. time really turns me off of the game.

Sure, the missions are interesting (more-so than WoW or EQ2), but to have to do them over and over again. Would be different if for each profession they had a set of quests just for that profession(s)....but, they don't, at least not that i can really see....unless, I am not seeing it in the right light....

Chris

May 02, 2005, 12:08 AM // 00:08	#1
MythicalMino Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: May 2005 Location: Quincy, MI Guild: Weapons of Death (WD) Profession: R/E	PvP skills vs. PvE time played I read in magazines, the official site, all over, that Guild Wars was going to change the way MMORPG's are played...battles are more dependent on your skills rather than time played.... Is this true? I keep reading that to get other skills, you have to take a PvE character up through the "official" game. I did try to create a PvP character, and I could not pick but only about 8-10 skills. Was this always like this? Or did they just change this? Does it make the game balanced? I am assuming it does, but doesn't it kinda suck that you have to still play a character through the game (however many hours that is), going through the same missions over and over again just to get the skills "unlocked" for that particular characters profession? I am actually posting this as a real legit question, as I am wondering how this whole system works. If it works out well enough, then fine...but what if I wanted to create a warrior/elementalist, but have not had either a warrior, or an elementalist in PvE....then that means i have to take a character through the PvE game just to improve my PvP player....this seems counter to what I thought the game was going to do. Besides, with only 4 character slots, it doesn't really leave you open much else, other than "2" character types (2 slots per character type): one slot for PvP, and the other for PvE (advancement of skills). I am not trying to be critical or cynical of the game...I think the game is very impressive, and I am enjoying the game immensely...but to go through the whole "story" over and over again to "unlock" skills for other professions that I might wanna try in PvP is a daunting thought, and one that is not making me really want to go beyond 1 or 2 characters at the most. so, please, can anyone help me out here with understanding the concept of this? Like I said, one of my pc magazines (an ad for GW) declares that Guild Wars will be where skill matters, not hours played. The way I see it....it is still very much that "hours played" matters. Afterall, to get to those skills, you need to play the hours.... Thanks Chris

May 02, 2005, 12:13 AM // 00:13	#2
Blackace Guest	this is a topic that some(like myself) are debating right now. Theres alot at work in the big picture of things, but for the most part you're right on the money. I'll make a big topic about it later(or post in this one) but right now I'm doing a project at the moment :/ Hope this turns into a good discussion and not a flame war.

May 02, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15	#3
Zai Krytan Explorer Join Date: Apr 2005	PvP characters are for trying builds out, not as your primary characters. If you want to see how a build performs at level 20 you make a PvP char and give it a swing. PvE chars are your mains, and getting from 1-20 on them shouldn't take you more then a week or two if you are a slow player. It's not to force you to play, but to teach you how to play. It is true that right now it is based on time spent playing, but this will only hold true for a month, then everyone will have level 20 PvE chars with most of the skills.

May 02, 2005, 12:29 AM // 00:29	#4
BChan Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2005 Guild: Parliament of Rooks Profession: N/Me	Ok Ill try to answer the OP question. Yes you have to play the PvE part in order to unlock skills for a PvP only toon. Some random weapons are unlocked for your PvP toon by aquiring them on a PvE toon. To your point does this seem semi contradictary to the lowest time needed to participate in an end game, game as advertised? Yes...Sorta. What i would say is that you can't have all rewards without some means of earning a right at having things (skills, spells, items, armor). Additionally, no one will be able to make a toon for a PvP only toon without having gotten those skills at one point or another, why is this a good thing? Because that means that person had to have played that primary or secondary profession for enough time as to haven gotten those skills. For example, you decide to get on for about an hour, no one from your guild is on so you just decide to do some random grouping for pvp. Could you imagine if everyone on your team had just gotten the game that day, rolled a PvP only toon, picked a build that had skills that didn't work with each other, had no clue on how to manage any of the stats, or would pm you saying, "why do i only get 8 skills to fight with?" I don't know about you that would just annoy the hell out of me. Next this further supports the diversity of equipment and skill sets. Because people have to aquire them in game, then reassemble and salvage parts for use, they get more specialized weapons that meet their individual needs. Once again a right of passage, understanding of your character, and making a better end game gommunity.

May 02, 2005, 12:32 AM // 00:32	#5
Lugosi Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Mar 2005	I was wondering about the same issue...I mean, I for example play a Necro/Elementist. So if I wanted to make a PVP character that doesn't have one of those professions the character would be like this: High Energy, lots of life, 60+ armor.....and beginner-skills. Doesn't really make sense to me. So to get more skills I'd have to start a new PvE char with this profession. So here's just a thought: When you salvage things like runes it doesn't matter what your professions are, you can still unlock runes that are of a different profession. My Necro for example just unlocked two Warrior-runes. Now...why don't they just do the same with skills? How about this: When you do a quest that gives you skills for your profession it also unlocks skills for a different profession? Like for example...two necro-skills and two ranger-skills unlock. Something like that, if anybody understands where I'm coming from here. This way you wouldn't have to play every profession you're interested to PvP with in PvE first. I hope this makes some sense ;-)

May 02, 2005, 12:37 AM // 00:37	#6
MythicalMino Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: May 2005 Location: Quincy, MI Guild: Weapons of Death (WD) Profession: R/E	well, I really do hope this does not turn into a flame war...that is not my intention in the least. I am truly concerned about this.... Now, as for the 2nd comment, thanks....I understand what you are saying now. But....this is still contrary to what I thought I understood it as. I was under the impression (and that impression could very well be wrong) that the max level was so low because the main purpose of the game is the guild wars battles...the PvP. If that is the case, then why are they making ppl go through the PvE aspect of it at least 3-6 times for all the skills to be competitive on the PvP part? Thanks again for your comments...and I really am not looking for trouble, just asking about this....as the PvE part of goes, I am enjoying the game greatly at the moment, but not sure I would want to go through it 2,3 or more times...I have 2 characters at the moment (Warrior/Ranger who is post-Searing & an Elementalist/Necromancer who I just made). And the thought of trudging through the story a 2nd, 3rd, ect. time really turns me off of the game. Sure, the missions are interesting (more-so than WoW or EQ2), but to have to do them over and over again. Would be different if for each profession they had a set of quests just for that profession(s)....but, they don't, at least not that i can really see....unless, I am not seeing it in the right light.... Chris